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Divinesoteriology
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This was an apologetic article aimed at Islam but it will suffice.


"A DEFENSE OF THE BIBLICAL CONCEPT
OF THE TRINITY
Since both Muslims and Christians agree that there is at least one person in God, the person Christians call Father, and since we have already given a defense of the Christian belief that Jesus Christ is God the Son (see Chapter 11), it remains only to say a word about the Holy Spirit of God.


The same revelation from God that declares Christ to be the Son of God also mentions another member of the triunity of God called the Spirit of God, or Holy Spirit. He too is equally God with the Father and the Son, and he too is a distinct person. The deity of the Holy Spirit is revealed in several ways. First, he is called “God” (Acts 5:3–4). Second, he possesses the attributes of deity such as omnipresence (cf. Ps. 139:7–12) and omniscience (1 Cor. 2:10–11). Third, he is associated with God the Father in the act of creation (Gen. 1:2). Fourth, he is involved with the other members of the Godhead in the work of redemption (John 3:5–6; Rom. 8:9f.; Titus 3:5–7). Fifth, he is associated with the other members of the Trinity under the one “name” of God (Matt. 28:18–20). Finally, the Holy Spirit appears along with the Father and Son in Christian benedictions (2 Cor. 13:14).


Not only does the Holy Spirit possess deity but he also has his own personality. He is one with God in essence but different in person. That he is a distinct person is clear from several basic facts. The Holy Spirit is addressed with the personal pronoun “he” (John 14:26; 16:13). He does things only persons can do, such as teach (John 14:26; 1 John 2:27), convict of sin (John 16:7–7), and be grieved by our sin (Eph. 4:30). Finally, the Holy Spirit has all the characteristics of personality, namely, intellect (1 Cor. 2:10–11), will (1 Cor. 12:11), and feeling (Eph. 4:30).


That the three members of the Trinity are distinct persons, and not one and the same person is clear from the fact that each person is mentioned in distinction from the other. For one thing, the Father and Son carried on conversations with each other. The Son prayed to the Father (John 17). The Father spoke from heaven about the Son at his baptism (Matt. 3:15–17). Indeed, the Holy Spirit was present at the same time, revealing that they are three distinct persons, coexisting simultaneously. Further, the fact that they have separate titles (Father, Son, and Spirit) indicate they are not one person. Also, each member of the Trinity has special functions that help us to identify them. For example, the Father planned salvation (John 3:16; Eph. 1:4); the Son accomplished it by the Cross (John 17:4; 19:30; Heb. 1:1–2) and resurrection (Rom. 4:25; 1 Cor. 15:1–6), and the Holy Spirit applies it to the lives of the believers (John 3:5; Eph. 4:30; Titus 3:5–7). The Son submits to the Father (1 Cor. 11:3; 15:28), and the Holy Spirit glorifies the Son (John 16:14).


The doctrine of the Trinity cannot be proven by human reason; it is only known because it is revealed by special revelation (in the Bible). However, just because it is beyond reason does not mean that it goes against reason. It is not irrational or contradictory, as Muslim scholars believe.


The philosophical law of noncontradiction informs us that something cannot be both true and false at the same time and in the same sense. This is the fundamental law of all rational thought, and the doctrine of the Trinity does not violate it. This can be shown by stating first of all what the Trinity is not. The Trinity is not the belief that God is three persons and only one person at the same time and in the same sense. That would be a contradiction. Rather, it is the belief that there are three persons in one nature. This may be a mystery, but it is not a contradiction. That is, it may go beyond reason’s ability to comprehend completely, but it does not go against reason’s ability to apprehend consistently.


Further, the Trinity is not the belief that there are three natures in one nature or three essences in one essence. That would be a contradiction. Rather, Christians affirm that there are three persons in one essence. This is not contradictory because it makes a distinction between person and essence. Or, to put it in terms of the law of noncontradiction, while God is one and many at the same time, he is not one and many in the same sense. He is one in the sense of his essence but many in the sense of his persons. So there is no violation of the law of noncontradiction in the doctrine of the Trinity.
Perhaps a model of the Trinity will help to grasp its intelligibility. When we say God has one essence and three persons we mean he has one What and three Whos. Consider the following diagram:


Board Image


Notice that the three Whos (persons) each share the same What (essence). So God is a unity of essence with a plurality of persons. Each person is different, yet they share a common nature.


God is one in his substance but three in his relationships. The unity is in his essence (what God is), and the plurality is in God’s persons (how he relates). This plurality of relationships is both internal and external. Within the Trinity each member relates to the other in a certain way. For example, the Father is related to the Son as Father, and the Son is related to the Father as Son. That is their external and internal relationship by the very makeup of the Trinity. Also, the Father sends the Spirit, and the Spirit testifies of the Son (John 14:26). These are their functions by their very participation in the unity of the Godhead. Each having a different relationship to the other, but all sharing the same essence.


No analogy of the Trinity is perfect, but some are better than others. First, some bad illustrations should be repudiated. The Trinity is not like a chain with three links. For these are three separate and separable parts, but God is neither separated or separable. Neither is God like the same actor playing three different parts in a play. For God is simulateously three persons, not one person playing three sucessive roles. Nor is God like the three states of water: solid, liquid, and gaseous. For normally water is not in all three of these states at the same time, but God is always three persons at the same time. Unlike other bad analogies, at least this one does not imply tritheism. However, it does reflect another heresy known as modalism.


Most erroneous illustrations of the Trinity tend to support the charge that trinitarianism is really tritheism, since they contain separable parts. The more helpful analogies retain unity while they show a simultaneous plurality. There are several that fit this description.
A Mathematical Illustration of the Trinity. As noted above, God is like 13 (1x1x1). Notice there are three ones but they equal only one, not three. This is precisely what there is in God, namely, three persons who are only one God. Of course, no illustration of the Trinity is perfect, but this does show how there can be both three and one at the same time in an indivisible reationship. Viewed in this way it is a good illustration of the Trinity.


A Geometric Illustration of the Trinity. Perhaps the most widely used illustration of the Trinity is the triangle. It is usually put in this form.

Board Image

Notice that there is only one triangle, yet there are three corners. Observe also that, if there is to be a triangle, these corners must be inseparable and simultaneous. In this sense it is a good illustration of the Trinity. Of course, the triangle is finite and God is infinite, so it is not a perfect illustration. But for the point it is trying to make it serves its purpose well. Also, by adding a circle touching (but not overlapping) with the lower left corner of the triangle, some of the mystery can be taken from the way the two natures of Christ relate to his one person.


Board Image


We must point out that Christ is one person (the lower left point of the triangle), yet he has two na-tures. His divine nature is the triangle and his human nature is the circle touching it. They unite at that point. That is, his two natures are cojoined in one person. Or, in terms of the above model, in Christ there are two Whats and one Who, whereas, in God there are three Whos and one What.


It should be pointed out in this connection that there are two ways not to diagram the relation between the two natures of Christ. Each is considered a heresy by orthodox Christians.


Board Image


In the first diagram where the circle overlaps with the triangle we have the monophysite heresy that confuses the two natures of Christ. This is not only heresy but is also an absurdity, since the divine nature of Christ is infinite and the human nature is finite. And it is impossible to have an infinite finite, an unlimited limited.


The second diagram where the circle and triangle do not even touch is the Nestorian heresy, which posits two persons as well as two natures in Christ. If this were so, then when Christ sacrificed his life on the cross, it was not the person who is also divine, the Son of God, who died for us. In this case, the atoning sacrifice of Christ would have no divine value and could not be efficacious for our sins. Only if one and the same person, who is both God and man, dies on the cross for our sin can we be saved. For unless Jesus is both God and man he cannot reconcile God and man. But the Bible says clearly, “there is one God, and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Tim. 2:5).


Since Christ is one Who (person) with two Whats (natures), whenever one question is asked about him it must be separated into two questions, one applying to each nature. For example, did he get tired? Answer: as God, no; as man, yes. Did Christ get hungry? In his divine nature, no; in his human nature, yes. Did Christ die? In his human nature, he did die. But in his divine nature he did not die. The person who died was the God-man, but his Godness did not die.


When this same logic is applied to other theological questions raised by Muslims it yields the same kind of answer. Did Jesus know everything? As God he did, since God is omniscient. But as man Jesus said he did not know the time of his second coming (Matt. 24:36), and as a child he didn’t know everything, since “he increased in wisdom” (Luke 2:52).


Another often asked question is: Could Jesus sin? The answer is the same: as God he could not have sinned; as man he could have sinned (but he didn’t). God cannot sin. For example, the Bible says “it is impossible for God to lie” (Heb. 6:18; cf. Titus 1:2). Yet Jesus was “in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin” (Heb. 4:15). That is to say, while he never sinned (2 Cor. 5:21; 1 Pet. 1:19; 1 John 3:3), he was really tempted and therefore it was possible for him to sin. Otherwise, his temptation would have been a charade. Jesus possessed the power of free choice, which means that whatever moral choice he made, he could have done otherwise. This means that when he chose not to sin (which was always), he could have sinned (but did not) as man.


Dividing every question of Christ into two and referring them to each nature unlocks a lot of theological puzzles that otherwise remain shrouded in mystery. And it makes it possible to avoid alleged logical contradictions that are urged upon Christians by Muslims and by other nonbelievers.


A Moral Illustration of the Trinity. One illustration, suggested by St. Augustine, has value in illuminating the Trinity. The Bible informs us that “God is love” (1 John 4:16). But love is triune, since it involves a lover, the loved one (beloved), and a spirit of love between them. To apply this to the Trinity, the Father is the Lover; the Son is the Beloved (i.e., the One loved), and the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of love. Yet love is one—three in one. This illustration has the advantage of being personal, since it involves love, a characteristic that flows only from persons.


An Anthropological Illustration. Since man is made in the image of God (Gen. 1:27), it should be no surprise that he bears some kind of similarity to the Trinity in human beings. First, we wish to disown trichotomy (that man is body, soul, and spirit) as an appropriate illustration of the Trinity. For even if true (and many Christians reject it for a dichotomy of just body and soul), it would be a bad illustration. Body and soul can be and are separated at death (2 Cor. 5:8; Phil. 1:23; Rev. 6:9), but the nature and persons of the Trinity cannot be separated.
A better illustration based in human nature would be, as suggested earlier, the relation between our mind, its ideas, and the expression of these ideas in words. There is obviously a unity among all three of these without there being an identity. In this sense, they illustrate the Trinity.
Islamic Illustrations of Plurality in Unity. Perhaps the best illustration of a plurality in deity for the Muslim mind is, as we mentioned earlier (in Chapter 11), the relation between the Qur’an and God. As one Islamic scholar stated it, the Qur’an “is an expression of Divine Will. If you want to compare it with anything in Christianity, you must compare it with Christ Himself. Christ was the expression of the Divine among men, the revelation of the Divine Will. That is what the Qur’an is.” Orthodox Muslims believe the Qur’an is eternal and uncreated, yet it is not the same as God but is an expression of God’s mind as imperishable as God himself. Surely, there is here a plurality within unity, something that is other than God but is nonetheless one with God. Indeed, the very fact that Muslim scholars see an analogy with the Christian doctrine of the deity of Christ reveals the value of this illustration. For Muslims hold that there are two eternal and uncreated things but only one God. And Christians hold to three uncreated and eternal persons but only one God.


Further, some have pointed to the fact that Muhammad was simultaneously a prophet, a husband, and a leader. Why then should a Muslim reject the idea of a plurality of functions (persons) in God. Within the Islamic system is the very proof that plurality within unity, as it relates to God, is not unintelligible. By the same token, then, there is no reason Muslims should reject the doctrine of the Trinity as nonsensical.


SUMMARY


At the heart of the difference between Islam and Christianity stands the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. Muslims protest that it is neither biblical nor intelligible. Yet we have seen that in order to maintain the former they have twisted scriptural texts out of context. And to hold the latter, to be consistent, they must reject not only clear logical distinctions but their own view of the relation of the Qur’an to God. In brief, there is no good reason to reject the doctrine of the Trinity. Furthermore, we provided evidence (in Chapter 11) that Christ is indeed the Son of God. Thus, Christian trinitarianism, with all its richness of interpersonal relations within the Godhead and with God’s creatures, is to be preferred over a barren and rigid Muslim monotheism."


Norman L. Geisler and Abdul Saleeb, Answering Islam : The Crescent in Light of the Cross, 2nd ed. (Grand Rapids, Mich.: Baker Books, 2002), 271-77.






Edited by Divinesoteriology : July 22, 2010, 11:57 pm

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Who coined the term 'trinitas' or 'trinity'? What year was it coined, who formulated it & when was it implemented into theology?
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Quote From : Rinnegade July 24, 2010, 10:21 am
Who coined the term 'trinitas' or 'trinity'? What year was it coined, who formulated it & when was it implemented into theology?


Not sure who coined the term. The teaching has been there since the revelation of Jesus. Jesus said if you have seen me you have seen the father, I and the father are one.



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Tertullian coined the term 'trinitas' AD200 & began the theology & was implemented into theology AD325 called the Nicene Creed. Doxology composed AD370 & in AD381 the Council of Constantinople invents "3 persons in 1 God".
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Quote From : Rinnegade July 24, 2010, 12:02 pm
Tertullian coined the term 'trinitas' AD200 & began the theology & was implemented into theology AD325 called the Nicene Creed. Doxology composed AD370 & in AD381 the Council of Constantinople invents "3 persons in 1 God".


I am not sure I completely agree. Looking at the Ante Nicene church fathers Clement of Alexandrian (Titus Flavius Clemens (c.150 - c. 215) talked about the trinity. Here is a quote

"For I pass over Plato; he plainly, in the Epistle to Erastus and Coriscus, is seen to exhibit the Father and Son somehow or other from the Hebrew Scriptures, exhorting in these words: “In invoking by oath, with not illiterate gravity, and with culture, the sister of gravity, God the author of all, and invoking Him by oath as the Lord, the Father of the Leader, and author; whom if ye study with a truly philosophical spirit, ye shall know.” And the address in the Timoeus calls the creator, Father, speaking thus: “Ye gods of gods, of whom I am Father; and the Creator of your works.” So that when he says, “Around the king of all, all things are, and because of Him are all things; and he [or that] is the cause of all good things; and around the second are the things second in order; and around the third, the third,” I understand nothing else than the Holy Trinity to be meant; for the third is the Holy Spirit, and the Son is the second, by whom all things were made according to the will of the Father."

Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson and A. Cleveland Coxe, The Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol. II : Translations of the Writings of the Fathers Down to A.D. 325 (Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, 1997), 468.

I also have a quote from Theophilus to Autolycus he applied the term trinity in 181 a.d

"On the fourth day the luminaries were made; because God, who possesses foreknowledge, knew the follies of the vain philosophers, that they were going to say, that the things which grow on the earth are produced from the heavenly bodies, so as to exclude God. In order, therefore, that the truth might be obvious, the plants and seeds were produced prior to the heavenly bodies, for what is posterior cannot produce that which is prior. And these contain the pattern and type of a great mystery. For the sun is a type of God, and the moon of man. And as the sun far surpasses the moon in power and glory, so far does God surpass man. And as the sun remains ever full, never becoming less, so does God always abide perfect, being full of all power, and understanding, and wisdom, and immortality, and all good. But the moon wanes monthly, and in a manner dies, being a type of man; then it is born again, and is crescent, for a pattern of the future resurrection. In like manner also the three days which were before the luminaries, are types of the Trinity, of God, and His Word, and His wisdom.37 And the fourth is the type of man, who needs light, that so there may be God, the Word, wisdom, man. Wherefore also on the fourth day the lights were made. The disposition of the stars, too, contains a type of the arrangement and order of the righteous and pious, and of those who keep the law and commandments of God. For the brilliant and bright stars are an imitation of the prophets, and therefore they remain fixed, not declining, nor passing from place to place. And those which hold the second place in brightness, are types of the people of the righteous. And those, again, which change their position, and flee from place to place, which also are cared planets, they too are a type of the men who have wandered from God, abandoning His law and commandments."

Alexander Roberts, James Donaldson and A. Cleveland Coxe, The Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol. II : Translations of the Writings of the Fathers Down to A.D. 325 (Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, 1997), 100-01.




Edited by Divinesoteriology : July 24, 2010, 12:20 pm

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I only ascribe to actual scriptural quotes being as how the foundation is built upon the apostles & prophets with Jesus being the chief cornerstone. Anybody after that is of no significance & is not contained in the canon of scripture.
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Quote From : Rinnegade July 24, 2010, 12:30 pm
I only ascribe to actual scriptural quotes being as how the foundation is built upon the apostles & prophets with Jesus being the chief cornerstone. Anybody after that is of no significance & is not contained in the canon of scripture.



Ok, but you said Tertullian was the first to coin the term. You brought up the church fathers.


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I don't consider Tertullian a church father nor anybody for that matter except those whose written letters are in the canon of scripture.
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Quote From : Rinnegade July 24, 2010, 1:05 pm
I don't consider Tertullian a church father nor anybody for that matter except those whose written letters are in the canon of scripture.


That's ok, its just a term to refer to a group of people. If you dont want to use the term that's ok..


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No problem. It seems to never fail that the further we go beyond what's contained within the actual scripture the further we stray from truth into error. Paul even says that there are many voices in the world & that none of them are without significance. It doesn't mean they're all speaking truth though.
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Quote From : Rinnegade July 24, 2010, 1:41 pm
No problem. It seems to never fail that the further we go beyond what's contained within the actual scripture the further we stray from truth into error. Paul even says that there are many voices in the world & that none of them are without significance. It doesn't mean they're all speaking truth though.


Why does any of this matter? So, Christians defined a term to describe a concept that is taught in Scripture. Although there is more to it, the simple doctrine is expressed in five truths found in Scripture.

1. There is one God. 1 Corinthians 8:6
2. The Father is that one God. 1 Cor. 8:6
3. Jesus is that one God. John 1:1; 20:28; Tit. 2:13;
4. The Holy Spirit is that one God. Acts 5:3-4
5. These three are relationally/personally distinct. John 1:1b, 2; 14:16-17

If you accept these 5 truths, then you are a Trinitarian, whether or not you like the name, understand all of the theological/philosophical concerns, or can explain any of it.

God Bless
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It does matter. The trinity is not a scriptural term & was never taught by anybody in OT or NT. There's only 1 God, the Father 1 Cor 8:6. God was manifest in the flesh 1 Tim 3:16. The Holy Spirit is the God & Father of that 'holy thing' born of Mary called the Son of God not 'God the Son'. The Father was in Christ, as in God the Father or Everlasting Father, there is no God the Grandfather. God the Father became his own Son. The mystery can't be explained w/tri-theism & is not scriptural. What verse says "If u accept these 5 truths, then u r a trinitarian, whether or not u like the name, understand all...."?
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Quote From : Rinnegade July 25, 2010, 6:13 am
It does matter. The trinity is not a scriptural term & was never taught by anybody in OT or NT. There's only 1 God, the Father 1 Cor 8:6. God was manifest in the flesh 1 Tim 3:16. The Holy Spirit is the God & Father of that 'holy thing' born of Mary called the Son of God not 'God the Son'. The Father was in Christ, as in God the Father or Everlasting Father, there is no God the Grandfather. God the Father became his own Son. The mystery can't be explained w/tri-theism & is not scriptural. What verse says "If u accept these 5 truths, then u r a trinitarian, whether or not u like the name, understand all...."?


If you won't interact with the verses I have raised, then I will likewise ignore your scriptural references and just answer your question.

No verse says "If u accept these 5 truths, then u r a trinitarian, whether or not u like the name, understand all....". That is NOT THE POINT.

Since Trinity is a non-bibilical term, then it is defined by humans. Trinity and Trinitarianism is defined by those 5 teachings I just stated. By DEFINITION, If one holds to that which is defined to be Trinitarianism, then they are a Trinitarian. This is just like saying, if you an unmarried male, then you are a bachelor. What a bachelor is defines who is a bachelor. What Trinitarianism is defines who is a Trinitarian. That is all I was saying.

God Bless

PS: Just because something is non-biblical does not make it unbiblical. The word Bible is not in the Bible. Can God not be omniscient because omniscient is not in the Bible? Realize that is a crazy standard for what words can be used when describing God's truth.

Edited by DoctrinesofGraceBapt : July 25, 2010, 10:07 am
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Trinity, as u state it then is a non-biblical term & man made which makes it man made doctrine & unbiblical. Jesus never stated that he was 1 w/a 3rd being but only w/the Father. The doctrine of God is strictly monotheism therefore we need to seek 1 & not 3. Should we leave the doctrine of God & follow the doctrine of men? The Son is 1 w/the Father & not a 3rd person/being. We understand biblically that the Holy Spirit is that God & Father of the man. The point is monotheism & what the scripture says & not what one's personal or private interpretation is.
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Quote From : Rinnegade July 25, 2010, 10:52 am
Trinity, as u state it then is a non-biblical term & man made which makes it man made doctrine & unbiblical. Jesus never stated that he was 1 w/a 3rd being but only w/the Father. The doctrine of God is strictly monotheism therefore we need to seek 1 & not 3. Should we leave the doctrine of God & follow the doctrine of men? The Son is 1 w/the Father & not a 3rd person/being. We understand biblically that the Holy Spirit is that God & Father of the man. The point is monotheism & what the scripture says & not what one's personal or private interpretation is.


Just because a word is not in the Bible does not make it unbiblical. Did you not read my post script. Words are just words; plain and simple. It is the meaning behind words and sentences that matter. What has been revealed by Scripture about God is found in the Bible. If man uses a word that HAPPENS not to be found in scripture, why does that MATTER?

Scripture reviles 5 true things. These things together have been tagged with the name Trinity. The BIBLE teaches these things. The BIBLE defines what is being taught. All man has done is given it a name. So, although the term Trinity is non-biblical, as in the term is not found in Scripture, the doctrine or concepts being described by term ARE BIBLICAL. A doctrine that is defined Biblically cannot be unbiblical, as in teaching things contrary to Scripture. That is an impossibility.

Now please stop with the word games and lets start talking about what Scripture says. Does scripture say

1. There is one God. 1 Corinthians 8:6
2. The Father is that one God. 1 Cor. 8:6
3. Jesus is that one God. John 1:1; 20:28; Tit. 2:13;
4. The Holy Spirit is that one God. Acts 5:3-4
5. These three are relationally/personally distinct. John 1:1b, 2; 14:16-17 ?

Which of these 5 statements do you deny? Which ones do you accept? If you accept them all, then what is the problem applying a word like Trinity?


BTW, The fact that "Jesus never stated that he was 1 w/a 3rd being but only w/the Father." is irrelevant. We never said he did. I mean why would Jesus say this? Besides, it is three persons NOT THREE BEINGS. Jesus being one with the Father in saving and securing his Sheep, Christians, would make Jesus equal with God the Father ontologically. That was his entire point in John 10:30. The fact that he was also one with the Spirit is irrelevant to the text and to Jesus' point. What Jesus said never contradicts trinitarian thought. Jesus was just not making THAT theological assertion.


You said :The doctrine of God is strictly monotheism therefore we need to seek 1 & not 3." Yes, we speak of one all the time. That is again completely irrelevant. Notice the first point is that GOD IS ONE AND THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD. The real question is Does the Bible require a Unitarian perspective?. Let me break it down another way. In humans, each human being has one person or each person has one being. There is a one to one relationship between persons and beings. When it comes to a rock, a rock has being, ie it exists, but it does not have a person connect to that rock. Now, when it comes to God, is God Unitarian, one person per being, Trinitarian, three persons per being, or something else? What do you mean when you say "strictly monotheism"?

"Should we leave the doctrine of God & follow the doctrine of men?" No, BUT whoever said this is a doctrine of man? This is God's teaching. We are simply using tags to answer questions brought up by non-believers.


God Bless
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