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Pre-Trib, Post Trib, Mid Trib, or no Trib Rapture
WMGADSBY
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Acts 1:4-8 And being assembled together with them, He commanded them not to depart from Jerusalem, but to wait for the Promise of the Father, “which,” He said, “you have heard from Me; for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” And He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

If Jesus was not planning on restoring the kingdom to elect Israel at a future time this would have been the ideal time for Him to say so.

I agree that He sits in heaven now, but He is interceding for His elect not reigning over all things yet.  See below:

1 Corinthians 15:28 Now when all things are made subject to Him, then the Son Himself will also be subject to Him who put all things under Him, that God may be all in all.

This happens at the end of Revelation 20, when Satan is cast into the Lake of fire.

Hebrews 2:5-9 For He has not put the world to come, of which we speak, in subjection to angels. But one testified in a certain place, saying:

“What is man that You are mindful of him, or the son of man that You take care of him? You have made him a little lower than the angels; You have crowned him with glory and honor, and set him over the works of Your hands. You have put all things in subjection under his feet.”

For in that He put all in subjection under him, He left nothing that is not put under him. But now we do not yet see all things put under him. But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone.

Just as Simeon and Anna looked for and longed for His first advent, so are we to look for His second. He has not told us the exact day and hour but Paul says this:

1 Thessalonians 5:1-11 But concerning the times and the seasons, brethren, you have no need that I should write to you. For you yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so comes as a thief in the night. For when they say, “Peace and safety!” then sudden destruction comes upon them, as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. You are all sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober. For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk are drunk at night. But let us who are of the day be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation. For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.

Therefore comfort each other and edify one another, just as you also are doing.

Looking with great anticipation,
Michael Lyman
http://cityonahill.readyhosting.com/


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Pre-Trib, Post Trib, Mid Trib, or no Trib Rapture
Divinesoteriology
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Ordo Solutis) Drawing, Faith, Union with Christ which entails Justification, Regeneration, Adoption
Quote From : WMGADSBY March 17, 2010, 5:30 pm
. For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.


So it would seem that you take a literal approach to the text, am I correct ? The discussion so far has been on whether there are a literal 1000 years reign with Christ.


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Faith is not knowing what the future holds, but knowing who holds the future.
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Pre-Trib, Post Trib, Mid Trib, or no Trib Rapture
ronathanedwards
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In context what is God's "wrath" juxtaposed against? Salvation? This wrath is God's wrath in Hell, not a "wrath on the world". This verse is speaking of election. We are not "appointed" for wrath (hell) but to obtain salvation (heaven).... through Christ... who died for US (atonement).

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Truth invites scrutiny, only error fears close examination. ~ Atruro Azurdia
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Pre-Trib, Post Trib, Mid Trib, or no Trib Rapture
WMGADSBY
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DS,
Yes I take a "literal" view. Revelation 20 makes no sense with any other interpretation.

Revelation 20:1-10 Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key to the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. He laid hold of the dragon, that serpent of old, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years; and he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal on him, so that he should deceive the nations no more till the thousand years were finished. But after these things he must be released for a little while.

And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

We have been told that we will judge angels and rule with Christ this cannot occur in the New heavens and earth which are the home of righteousness, so it obviously occurs before. There is a lot of imagery used in prophetic books, not so in this text. It also fits clearly fits with the context of Romans 11:1-36

I say then, has God cast away His people? Certainly not! For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. God has not cast away His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says of Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel, saying, “Lord, they have killed Your prophets and torn down Your altars, and I alone am left, and they seek my life”? But what does the divine response say to him? “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.” Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace. And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.

What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. Just as it is written:

“God has given them a spirit of stupor,

Eyes that they should not see

And ears that they should not hear,

To this very day.”

And David says:

“Let their table become a snare and a trap,

A stumbling block and a recompense to them.

Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,

And bow down their back always.”


I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!

For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?

For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you.

You will say then, “Branches were broken off that I might be grafted in.” Well said. Because of unbelief they were broken off, and you stand by faith. Do not be haughty, but fear. For if God did not spare the natural branches, He may not spare you either. Therefore consider the goodness and severity of God: on those who fell, severity; but toward you, goodness, if you continue in His goodness. Otherwise you also will be cut off. And they also, if they do not continue in unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. For if you were cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and were grafted contrary to nature into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, who are natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?

For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,

And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

For this is My covenant with them,

When I take away their sins.”

Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers. For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable. For as you were once disobedient to God, yet have now obtained mercy through their disobedience, even so these also have now been disobedient, that through the mercy shown you they also may obtain mercy. For God has committed them all to disobedience, that He might have mercy on all.

Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and His ways past finding out!

“For who has known the mind of the Lord?

Or who has become His counselor?”

“Or who has first given to Him

And it shall be repaid to him?”

For of Him and through Him and to Him are all things, to whom be glory forever. Amen.

There are elect physical descendants of Abraham that will inherit physically all of the promises of God to the nation of Israel and we elect gentiles will enjoy them as well.

Satan is obviously not bound before this:

Revelation 2:10 Do not fear any of those things which you are about to suffer. Indeed, the devil is about to throw some of you into prison, that you may be tested, and you will have tribulation ten days. Be faithful until death, and I will give you the crown of life.

This is just one of many NT texts showing he is alive and "well".


RE,

I agree with you.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-12 Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things? And now you know what is restraining, that he may be revealed in his own time. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

The church is the Body of Christ and we are indwelt by the Holy Spirit who is restraining the evil that will be revealed and unleashed in the tribulation. Israel will be purged during this time and her elect saved.

Jeremiah 30:6-11

Ask now, and see,

Whether a man is ever in labor with child?

So why do I see every man with his hands on his loins

Like a woman in labor,

And all faces turned pale?

Alas! For that day is great,

So that none is like it;

And it is the time of Jacob’s trouble,

But he shall be saved out of it.

‘For it shall come to pass in that day,’

Says the Lord of hosts,

‘That I will break his yoke from your neck,

And will burst your bonds;

Foreigners shall no more enslave them.

But they shall serve the Lord their God,

And David their king,

Whom I will raise up for them.

‘Therefore do not fear, O My servant Jacob,’ says the Lord,

‘Nor be dismayed, O Israel;

For behold, I will save you from afar,

And your seed from the land of their captivity.

Jacob shall return, have rest and be quiet,

And no one shall make him afraid.

For I am with you,’ says the Lord, ‘to save you;

Though I make a full end of all nations where I have scattered you,

Yet I will not make a complete end of you.

But I will correct you in justice,

And will not let you go altogether unpunished.’

There are many who wish to believe God will keep His promises to them as believing gentiles, but do not believe what God has said about keeping His promises to the Fathers, David, etc. God put Abraham to sleep and confirmed the covenant by walking through the sacrifices by Himself, thus showing He would not break that covenant. It is through the Abrahamic covenant that we share in those promises.


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Pre-Trib, Post Trib, Mid Trib, or no Trib Rapture
eternally-gratefull
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Quote From : ronathanedwards March 18, 2010, 1:37 pm
In context what is God's "wrath" juxtaposed against? Salvation? This wrath is God's wrath in Hell, not a "wrath on the world". This verse is speaking of election. We are not "appointed" for wrath (hell) but to obtain salvation (heaven).... through Christ... who died for US (atonement).


Sorry but I do not agree. He is talking about Gods wrath that is poured out on the earth spoken about in revelation. The "tribulation that has not been seen on earth before"
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Pre-Trib, Post Trib, Mid Trib, or no Trib Rapture
WMGADSBY
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EG,
Jesus certainly died to save His elect from all of God's wrath not only that which I believe will occur while we are in heaven celebrating the marriage supper of the Lamb.

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Pre-Trib, Post Trib, Mid Trib, or no Trib Rapture
Rinnegade
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The rapture occurs when these events happen: 1 Chr 15:51,52 The last trump which is the 7th trumpet Rev 10:7. Rev 11:15 the 7th angel sounds after the 2 witnesses are done. Obviously the church will know & see the two witesses which is the event we're waiting to happen. Has the 1st trump sounded? No. False prophecy & such seems to occur before true prophecy of God.
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